I can’t believe it’s almost over. Life and CNN and the NYT without Sarah, Tina, Joe the plumber, Tito the builder, Ayers and Wright and Rashi and stray aunts, rogues and mavericks and stray sperm, to say nothing of Putin and caribou on the horizon. All done and gone? Back to the usual LA car chases and random murders. No, say it isn’t so. No more robocalls. Just yesterday I was told my medicare and social security were threatened because Barack was going to use them for his Share The Wealth plan. I get on average 4 robocalls to break up my day and connect me to the world. I expect Wed. Nov.5th will go down (or up) in history as the day the news went blank.

So…One more night, as Phil Collins sings, gimme one mooooore night. Then get your corkscrews ready. This is gonna be gooooood.

You had me at ‘because’. My absentee ballot was in the post weeks ago.

Speaking of corkscrews, various ex-pat chums will be either drinking or engaged in mass suicide at a pub in London which promises to have the results on wide screen TV all night. I’ll wear my lucky underwear and little else.

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

I’ll be glad when this circus is done and I can say “told you so.”

Heh, I refuse to be disappointed Tuesday. Yes… McCain isn’t a great candidate…. Palin is even scarier…. but I can’t help but think it can’t be worse than the last 8 years. So even if McCain wins, I’ll be happy because it just solidifies the idea that Bush isn’t going to be in office for much longer.

rtk, It’s been very, very good, but at this rate nobody will ever read Russian novels or do anything else with their time but surf the internet for polls and Sarah Palin stories. I’m soooooo glad this is about to be over.

James, Wish I could be there. It sounds like a blast, except the mass suicide part. We have our Kerry champagne all ready to go though, and hope (hope, hope….) we will finally get to drink it. We will watch with a few very close friends, with counselors standing by. ;-)

J: We will be electrified, for sure.

P:
Meet the new party pooper.
Same as the old party pooper.

Where’s t? The other party pooper.

J:
C’ya at the pub.

W:
There will be no disappointments Tuesday. This one’s in the bag.

Where’s m.r.? Crying in his beer already? He’s going to be seriously plastered.

Party pooper? No, I’m one who realizes that it doesn’t matter which cult of personality wins the election - I will lose regardless.

I got fooled when I voted for Bill the first time. I haven’t been fooled since.

Enjoy your victory drinks. I’ll be drinking too, but for different reasons.

Since when is voting for someone because they are black a rational way to vote? Or, voting for someone because the other candidate is mean?
With the exception of a quick reference to abortion, there is nothing in this post relating to real issues; it’s all emotion.
Colin Powell? The man who lied to the world about weapons of mass destruction? No one should listen to him, even if what he says is a slap in the face to the Bush Administration.
While Obama is not as sleazy as McCain, he has still told his fair share of lies in order to win the campaign.

Under Obama, Bush’s unconstitutional faith-based initiatives will be expanded.
Obama sees no problem in fighting wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Obama supported the bailout of major corporations, some that supported his campaign, yet his plan for Americans struggling to keep their homes is a ridiculous 90 day foreclosure waiver. Useless.
Ralph Nader calls the bailout taxation without representation and he’s absolutely correct.

Obama has charisma to spare, he claims to love the middle class, too. I guess if you’re poor he doesn’t care about you. Charisma only goes so far. Considering the historic debt this country is in, I have a hard time figuring out where he’s going to get the money to pay for all his programs. Hope you like paying taxes.

Put on your blinders, drink all you want, you’ll have a four year hangover. But at least there will be some pretty speeches along the way.

Tree, Since when is finding the first black president “electrifying” the same thing as saying “vote for him because he is black”? Methinks your are confused about this.

You are also confused about my list being “all emotion.” It’s not emotional to observe that Obama is thoughtful, articulate, calm, and inspiring. These are the kinds of adjectives that have been used by vast numbers of people in the last couple of weeks. Obama is all four things far more than Bush was, and also (I am implying) far more than McCain.

Punishment for the last 8 years and for dirty campaigning is actually very important, if they are not to be repeated. Again, a genuinely important matter, not a matter of emotion. If I were being emotional I would have said Bush, McCain, and Palin should all be drawn and quartered.

The choice is between Obama and McCain. There are no other real options. I think I’ve identified why it matters that Obama win, not McCain. Naturally, I haven’t discussed why it matters for Obama to win, not Bob Barr, or Ron Paul, or Ralph Nader, or who knows who. I believe he’s a better candidate than all of them, but those comparisons would be a waste of my time. They’re not going to win.

I have a real world interest in politics. I vote, I contribute money, I canvass and make phone calls. The alternative universe where people debate Ralph Nader vs. Bob Barr, or whatever is “hot” out there, just isn’t one I inhabit. Just being honest. The issue in the real world today is Obama vs. McCain. There is no other.

I’m definitely not confused.

The punishment the Bush Administration deserves is impeachment for Bush and serious jail time for many others in his administration. Not for their campaigning but for their many violations of the Constitution, among other violations. Dirty campaigning has gone on since the first campaigns and I hardly think making a “take that!” argument is wise or worth the effort.

As for the issue of being black, your post seems to list all the reasons why he should be president, including the electrifying idea of having our first black president. You claim a black president would prove to the world the USA is for equality, which is false and there’s ample evidence to prove this.

I brought up real issues that Obama proposes and you ignored them. Maybe you think it’s okay to bomb the crap out of Afghanistan, or start a war in Pakistan?
I question whether you even know what Ralph Nader stands for. I think your willful ignorance of the third party candidates shows a very unbalanced view of your “real world interest in politics.”
sadly, it just makes you part of the mass media hypnosis that convinces Americans there are only two parties.

I’m thrilled that Bush is leaving office, I’m counting the days. But Obama will not bring the change that he claims he can bring.
Just remember, the Democrats now in office were the same ones that promised withdrawal from Iraq and then did nothing. And then sat back and watched the economy nose-dive and bailed out major corporations.

Emotional voting? You betcha. Durn right I’m casting an emotional vote. The more I read about the differences between the candidates and the more I think and reflect about it, the more emotional I get and the more determined to get out there and make my vote count. Cast a vote for a loser just to make oneself feel good? Sure, if you’re really into playing with yourself. I’d rather elect a president.

As for being black and president of the U.S., you have to talk to some African Americans to see just how electrifying that is. Some whites just don’t get it and never will.

You attributed to me the view that people should vote for Obama because he’s black. That’s what you drew from the observation that it would be electrifying to have our first black president. I’d say that’s confused.

Sure, Bush should be impeached and everyone should go to jail. It’s not going to happen. What could very well happen is that Republicans lose badly tomorrow. They will certainly read that as punishment for the last 8 years. It’s also punishment for their sleazy campaign. Take home lesson: demonizing a candidate as a terrorist, socialist, and Muslim does not win elections. It’s an important lesson.

The issue is Obama vs. McCain and the issues that separate them. The foreign policy issues you bring up don’t separate them. So…important, but not relevant at the moment. Obviously I wouldn’t be so pro-Obama if I disagreed with him vehemently on foreign policy. I don’t.

The lesson to be learned is that people want change across the board. It’s not necessarily a Republican/Democrat issue because there are Democrats, like John Murtha, who are fighting for survival in this election.
To think this is about standing up for what is right in a campaign is just naive. How many plots to kill Obama have been foiled so far? I know of two, possibly three. And there are many people who still believe all the lies about Obama because they want to.
Demonizing candidates does win elections. If it didn’t, they would’ve stopped doing it about 200 years ago.

Jean, your support of Obama seems to be based on convenience and compartmentalization. You slam McCain all the time then turn around and post that Obama’s foreign policies are hardly different.
Unbelievable.

Tree:
Suppose the election for the president was a rationally ordered one. You would be presented with a ballot paper which had all the names of all the candidates on it. You could vote for them all in the order of your preference or for as many you wished or plump for one.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Alternative-Vote
You would not be afraid that your vote was wasted as when your first preference was eliminated your vote would then pass to your number 2. A knowledge of the real preferences of the people would allow the eventual potus to construct policy to reflect that. The hegemony of Tweedledum and Tweedledee would be broken. Bands of Green Party voters would emerge. The dark mind of the electorate would be revealed as a rainbow.

Could this be wrought and still retain the Electoral College? The explanation of that institution is that initially it was a way of retaining the same voting strength which was, as now, based on population whilst refusing the franchise to blacks and women. Let it go the same way as ‘one if by land and two if by sea etc.’

McCain is in favour of a run-off system. What Obama is for is soaring rhetoric borne aloft by hot air. I don’t have a vote and you Tree have but a hobbled one so good luck.

I suppose we need all the luck we can get, Michael. And in the end, it really doesn’t matter who is president, considering all this country is facing. Maybe it’s about who will bring us to the brink the quickest.

Hobbled? Depends on why one votes. I think a vote for McCain or Obama is hobbled because for one thing, it’s a vote for the corporations that are ruining this country.
If I vote for Nader it will not be because I think he has a chance of winning, it will be because he has a great deal of integrity, has done more for the people of America than either major candidate combined, and has really good ideas about how this country should be run.
It is a minor form of rebellion against the corporate machine called the election. And it’s voting my conscience.
It’s support for the fact that there are more than two political parties. And it’s my refusal to compromise, and vote for the lesser of two evils.

I have no faith in the system, which is smart since it’s breaking down.
Will check out your link when I get a chance.

Unbelievable that I slam McCain for some things, yet agree with him on others? It doesn’t seem unbelievable to me! In fact, it seems just normal and to be expected.

exactly.

I love #2. I think ‘punishment’ is perhaps the wrong term, but certainly an idea similar to that.
And I’m curious at what, according to Tree, Obama has lied about?
Also, in relation to Obama’s clear articulation, it is interesting to note McCain said “I admire Mr.Obama’s eloquence” in the 3rd debate.
I don’t think a black president is going to tell the world America is the country of equality. It isn’t. Blacks aren’t the only minority group. Can you imagine a lesbian president?
I find McCain on abortion so completely bizzare. McCain said in the last debate “we need to support these woman making such difficult choices” but under his presidency, we would have no choice.

In my ideal scenario we would have a Jewish woman prez candidate and a black gay vice. But like Cheney says, we’ve got to go with the army we have.

J: Being pro and anti the same candidate is just calculating and definitely lacking in the emotional fervor I associate with third party groupies who are looking for faith-based systems and luck.

I’d like to see a list of the accomplishments of these rock stars lined up with a hero like MCain. That book, Unsafe at Any Speed hasn’t been on the best seller list for ages. Audacity of Hope is current. And so is Obama.

rtk, I hope you don’t really believe McCain is a hero. It’s hard to tell what you’re saying here as your sarcasm clashes with your passive-agressiveness.

Eve, Obama has definitely not been sleazy like McCain and his supporters (mainly his supporters) but he has lied about McCain’s policies and what their effects on America would be. I tried to find links to show what I mean but ran out of time, sorry.

Even a reference on the content of the supposed lies would suffice…I’m just curious to hear the pecifics of the accusation.

Passive-aggressive should come as a pleasant surprise to the athletes I compete with. Delightful, but wishful thinking.

You should look at McCain’s war record. 5 captive years is nothing to stick your nose up at. He could have been released but chose to stay with his men. He endured a lot that a less heroic man would have escaped. No sleazy tricks by his handlers can take away his heroism. Regardless of my much greater esteem for Obama, I certainly admire McCain.

He was bombing and napalming civilians in a very unjust war when his plane was shot down.
What he endured was terrible, but nothing the administration he supports hasn’t done to many people in the last eight years. In fact, by Bush’s standards, he would be considered a terrorist, carted off to Guantanamo, waterboarded regularly and never see freedom again.

McCain is no hero. As Tree says, he was bombing civilian in an unjust war. Are the German pilots who bombed Britain heroes? Second, if McCain had accepted the North Vietnamese offer for early release, given that his father was an admiral, he would have received a dishonorable discharge for the Navy immediately upon returning to the United States. Now, a man with McCain’s ambitions does not want a dishonorable discharge on his curriculum vitae.

McCain’s heroism consists of the fact that after being tortured, he was given a chance to be released, and said no out of loyalty to fellow prisoners. He later came to recognize this was an ill-conceived war and led the effort to normalize relations with Vietnam and resolve the POW/MIA issue. I’m not prepared to think of every Vietnam vet, and all the 50,000 that died in that war ,as villains. I reserve that judgment for the “brains” behind the war. So yes, I admire him.

Actually, I admire him for a lot of stuff–his stance against torture, his support for stem cell research despite the opposition of a lot of his party, his leadership on climate change. It matters that Obama wins (for my 10 reasons!) but that doesn’t mean I can’t admire McCain for some things…without any “buts”.

No one said that every Vietnam vet is a villain. Most soldiers who served in Vietnam were drafted; many were never even in combat. McCain volunteered to be a Navy combat pilot; he wasn’t drafted. Second, if you read what I said above, McCain, being McCain, had little choice about accepting the North Vietnamese offer to release him. If he had accepted that offer, he would have received an dishonorable discharge or even a court martial. It would not have looked good for the son of a Navy admiral to receive special treatment from the enemy. When I have heard McCain talk about Vietnam, far from criticizing that war, he emphasizes that the U.S. could have won in Vietnam if it had fought on. I don’t admire him at all. I admire my friend Eduardo Martinez. Drafted into the U.S. army right out of high school from a poor, uncultured, chicano background, he refused to shoot at targets with a human form. Nothing he had learned in books, just a gut refusal. They beat him up, they called him a fairy, they threw him in solitary confinement for several months. Then they gave him a dishonorable discharge. Eduardo’s a brave and honorable man.

I know, Amos, that it’s dead easy to condemn all Germans for what happened in Europe 1939-45. Do I think that some German pilots were heros. You’re damn right I do! I think that, despite the despicable nature of Nazi ideology. Do you really think that everyone who fights in a war does it because he believes, integrally, in what his government has decided to do? It is simply not so, and many Germans who fought bravely in WW II, were heroes. Why should we deny them that, any more than we should deny the same epithet to those who bombed Dresden or Hamburg?

It’s too easy to make moral judgements. I have no idea about McCain’s state of mind when he was a USN pilot. I find him hard to take now, and mute my TV when he is on. But, for all that, let’s not regally claim such a privileged moral view. We are all, when it comes down to it, merely human, and as likely as many others to fail at the first hurdle. I do not admire McCain now. He has given us reason to distrust his moral instincts. But McCain as a young naval pilot, doing his duty? I’m not so sure.

As Jean says, despite all, he has taken stands that show some moral grit. Let’s not write him off, at the same time that we hope that the American electorate does!

eve, of course I can’t find the information now that I need it. The lies I was referring to are things like explaining certain policies of McCain but giving wrong facts and figures so that they seem worse than they really are. But, if I can’t find the information then I should just withdraw that statement.

Official Republican campaign material says or insinuates that Obama is a Muslim, sympathetic with terrorism, a socialist, un-American.

I think I can see what you mean - but this could be misconstrued. After all, you’ve not done anything to dispel the supposition that being a Muslim or socialist are bad things, or that political violence might sometimes be warranted. And charges of being un-American are, to non-Americans, pretty baffling. What, exactly, does it mean?

All children in American schools are reminded every year of the famous speeches that shaped American history. They will have another one with sentences to memorize. Last night’s speech to 200,000 electrified listeners in Chicago’s Grant Park will take its place in the children’s books with Lincoln and Kennedy and Roosevelt.

Lincoln and Kennedy and Roosevelt

Charlatans

Lincoln and Roosevelt were not charlatans. No comment on other figures named above.

AL: Four score and seven years ago…..
JFK: Ask not what your country can do for you……..
FDR: We have nothing to fear but fear itself…….
BHO: (we will see, there was a lot to choose from)

Enzyme, personally, I haven’t felt the need to respond to the Obama accusations you’ve listed above because they are so ridiculous they are not worthy of debating. I am also under the assumption that all who post here feel the same way and would hope the discussions on Obama rise above that level.

As for accusing Americans of being un-American…I’m sure whatever country you live in has people who engage in jingoism, nationalism and just all-around meaness?

“FDR: We have nothing to fear but fear itself…….”

That line is apparently nearly always misquoted; that’s misquoted. The audio exists. It goes (I can do it in FDR’s accent upon request):

The only thing we have to feah

is feah itself.